1) Do you agree with me in the fact that, maybe she knew just what she was doing and was playing the others around her to gain what she wanted? (And it's okay to disagree! I am seriously confused here so any and all insight is more than welcome!)
2) What is your take on Dimuzi? Do you think that he was a good husband and father? And if so, why do you think that Inanna did the things that she has been depicted of doing in these stories?
3) What was your favorite part out of Gilgamesh and/or Inanna? I think mine would have to be where Gil and Enkidu are tearing each other to pieces, ripping the feast hall apart and then BAAAAMMMM!!!!!! Hi, yeah, we're bestie now... I called my mom right after reading that because I was so darn confused as to how one minute, they went from mortal enemies, to being brothers (or becoming even more, if you closely read the text).
Lyz,
ReplyDeleteTo answer your questions from my point of view:
1.) I believe what you are inferring here, is that Inanna may be a master manipulator of sorts? I could totally get on board with this. Though I had never considered the idea previous to this post, I would say that it is completely plausible. Maybe she's the one who pushed her uncle to drink more in order to acquire the "me." Maybe she never really liked Dumuzi and is now trying to get his sister out of the picture. What do you think? IT'S ALL A CONSPIRACY!
2.) I have never seen Dumuzi as being a bad person OR a bad husband. He seems to fight for Innana's love, and she never really seems to treat him right in return. When she sacrificed him to hell, I was shocked. Not sure what he did to warrant that sort of punishment, but you could say that I lost respect for Inanna.
3.) My favorite part is the "plow my vulva" line from Inanna. It has become somewhat of a meme in my apartment now. Thanks, Dr. Luthin!
Your post made me bust out laughing Nate! I really appreciate your insight and I too have lost respect for Inanna not only because she treats Dimuzi so poorly but, because of all of the stunts she pulls. I think that her being a master mind manipulator definitely had a role in that. I never really thought about that possibility either until, we started reading other stores she was a part of and the same theme and behaviors were popping up. And as for, "plowing her vulva," I feel as though that is going to be the golden moment from this class just as from Dr. Boziock's class, it was the fact that we never knew which Joseph we were going to get that day!
DeleteLyz, I totally agree with your point of view that Inanna had known what she was doing the whole time. I got that vibe from her from the very beginning, when we were first introduced to her in the Huluppu tree. Right off the bat as a young girl she was crying about not having this shining throne and shining bed, that is to say, she always had high expectations for what she was entitled to and has never been humble. And instead of getting these things for herself, she just complained to everyone else about why they hadn't given them to her yet, and couldn't handle the fact that these other creatures had helped themselves to her tree in the meantime.
ReplyDeleteAs for Dumuzi, I feel like he was probably a decent husband who was just a victim of her self-absorption. When she gets back from the underworld and sees that he wasn't absolutely suffering without her, that's all it took for her to let him die. And like Gilgamesh said, every dude in history has regretted being with her, so that points to some major flaws in her personality.
Lastly, I don’t know if I have a particular favorite moment in these stories, but overall I enjoyed the Inanna “trilogy” most. I found her to be interesting and in depth, as well as the rest of the “characters” in her world. I also liked the suspensefulness of the events as they happened, whether it was the process of her escaping with all the Me, or her journey into and out of the underworld.
I'm really glad that I'm not the only one who had this vibe and feeling from Inanna! I fell like Dimuzi was a good husband as well and agree wholeheartedly with you that Inanna was the problem here. When Gilgamesh started explaining how every man she had ever been with regretted it, I started laughing in my dorm room because, he was so right!
Delete1. I definitely agree with you in that sense. I feel like since you said that and I go back and look at the text she defiantly could have been playing everyone to gain what she wanted.
ReplyDelete2. I am indifferent about Dumuzi as a husband. I don't think he is the worst husband, but I also do not think he is the best husband. Granted I also think that Inanna is the best wife in the world. To me Inanna just seems to be selfish and doesn't really think about her husband.
3. Honestly I though Gilgamesh was kind of boring so I preferred Inanna. I just thought Inanna had more excitment in it and made me keep wanting to read it. Inanna kind of had some suspense to it where as Gilgamesh just seemed so boring and long for me. Then again this is my opinion and other may disagree.
I totally respect and support your opinion Morgan! Inane was VERY suspenseful and man, she had us on the edge of our seats wondering what she was going to do next. She is such a dynamic character and by that I mean more in the sense that, we (or at least I) never knew what she was going to do next! You are completely entitled to your opinion and that is one of the many amazing liberties that we are privy to when discussing and interpreting literature! That is one of the main reasons why I decided to be an English teacher. I hope that I can show my students this as well (because lets face it, we all know that most kids do not like English).
DeleteHi, Lyz! Those are some very interesting questions you came up with!
ReplyDelete1.) Personally, from how it was translated, I think Inanna WAS, in fact, capable of what she was doing. For example, from how she got all the me's from Enki, she accepted each and every one of them with absolutely no hesitation and also just throwing Dumuzi, literally, into the underworld with no second thoughts either.
2.) While it was never really mentioned on how Dumuzi was as a husband, I thought Dumuzi was a pretty decent husband. From the courtship, I thought he was devoting his whole livelihood for Inanna. Although Dumuzi is, by no means, perfect, I still didn't understand WHY Inanna just threw him under the bus like that and sent him to the underworld. Maybe the explanation as to why Inanna "snapped" in a sense broke off from the clay cuneiform tablets.
3.) I was not the biggest fan of Gilgamesh, but I just loved reading Inanna a lot more, since I liked the repetitive writing style. My personal favorite moments that happened in the Inanna tales were probably the overuse of the word "vulva" or when Inanna (Excuse my French, the bitch) throws her own HUSBAND down into the Underworld. I was like "WHAT THE HECK?!" I was so confused that I thought it was hilarious.
YESSS GIRL I totally understand where you are coming from. I feel like Inanna kept us on the edge of our seat! I don't know about you but, some characters I can almost predict what they might do next, however, that was so not the case with Inanna! I ask myself why she threw Dimuzi to the underworld too and perhaps it was written down but, ended up lost as many other pieces so unfortunately did.
DeleteI like the point you made! It's very solid, but I feel differently.
ReplyDelete1. I feel that Inanna was innocent in her early days. If she were truly manipulative, she would have made some kind of an attempt to clear the tree on her own. I base this assumption on the fact that manipulative people are also proud people, and they will go to great lengths to avoid showing weakness. In Inanna's case, she immediately asked for assistance from her brother, leading me to believe she was genuinely helpless.
2. I feel that Dumuzi was a good husband. However, one could make a strong argument that he was not (seeing as he did nothing when his wife was lost to the underworld). While this is a serious ordeal, he was a king, and that king has kingly duties that must be attended to no matter what emotional tribulations he may be experiencing. Also, if he were a bad husband, why would Inanna have felt such strong remorse after sentencing him to the underworld?
3. I thoroughly enjoyed Gilgamesh's preposterous strength. That is all.
Pierre btw
DeleteI really enjoyed your point of view on Inanna's innocence! I never thought about that angle and completely agree that manipulative people are proud and though they don't want to be found out, the leave little hints about their wrong doings just because they are compelled to from deep down in their own psyche. I also agree with you on question number too as well. I see where you are coming from and respect that! I feel like the jury is still out with me on Dimuzi. You bring up a great point, that he did not go and try and save Inanna whilst in the underworld however, he had kingly duties to attend to. This story is just very rich and honestly, mind blowing.
Delete1) I think it depends on the situation. For example, I think she knew exactly what she was doing when she got the me from Enki, but I think she genuinely liked Dumuzi. I believe she does have actual feelings but she can get what she wants from you and you'd thank her for it to boot.
ReplyDelete2) I think that Dumuzi wasn't a bad person, maybe just foolish. I don't know what kind of laws and traditions there were in place regarding mourning, but the fact that he was chilled out and playing music is kind of incriminating.
3) I have a great mental picture of Enkidu and Gilgamesh fighting for the first time: Gilgamesh headbuts Enkidu with a resounding *crack*. Enkidu, completely unfazed, grins widely and rears back and *crack* headbuts Gilgamesh twice as hard. Gilgamesh laughs out loud and thinks "Oh yeah, this guy's gonna be my best friend." Those two are tough to the point of absurdity
-Virginia
I totally agree with you Virginia! Gil and Enkidu are two very tough individuals! I couldn't believe that them basically trying to kill each other resulted in a concrete, completely reinforced, and solid to a fault friendship that is still talked about to this day! And as for Inanna, I totally get where you are coming from and as I said in pervious replies to others, I did not look at it form that perspective! I really appreciate your insight and can appreciate this story even more so than I did because of it!
DeleteLyz, I too found that part extremely interesting. (3) However, you also see situations like this in present time fights like boxing, wrestling and UFC. When the two are done fighting, they often seem very cordial and often times even hug and raise each others hands. It seems strange, but I see it as a show of respect for each other after they are both challenged and exhausted.
ReplyDelete-Cam Butler
DeleteYou make a good point about Inanna's character being manipulative, but I don't see her as very calculated or logical in her decisions. She certainly hurts people in an effort to help herself, but I don't envision her as the kind of girl to sit around and thoroughly plot the destruction of others. Instead, she appears to simply be selfish and bored.
ReplyDeleteHer actions, especially at the end, reflect her selfishness. When I read the part where she comes back from her journey to the Underworld, it struck me how incredibly self-centered she really was. When they are about to take Ninshubur, who sacrificially offers to go, Inanna's reasons for keeping Ninshubur are all about what she does for her. She says that she is "my" support, advisor, and warrior. Inanna doesn't even consider the fact that Ninshubur would suffer in the Underworld, not get to live her life, etc. Then, when they approach her sons, she does the same thing! Innana clearly cares about herself, even little things like having someone who "cuts [her] nails and smooths [her] hair," more than the entire lives of others.
Inanna is also very surface-level in her ambitions. She seems to be someone who can easily be convinced to do something on a whim. First, she marries Dumuzi when a few lines before she was sure she did not want to. She goes from calling the farmer the 'man of her heart' to calling Dumuzi the same thing. Is she ever committed to either one? It seems that she isn't, especially at the end when she eagerly fastens the eye of death on Dumuzi.
In the same way, Inanna's decision to go to the Underworld is unclear. However, it seems that she is overly confident and just seeking some kind of thrill. In this part, I did not see her as manipulative. Instead, I saw her as a really bored and immature girl who thinks that she can do whatever she wants (including go to the Underworld) just for the sake of doing it. This aligns with her tendency to change her mind. Then, when it doesn't work out as planned, she seems to take things in stride. She's not super happy that Dumuzi has to go to the Underworld (later, of course), which makes me believe that she made the decision to first descend and then to sacrifice her husband on a whim. If she was truly manipulative in the planning and formulating way, she would be pleased that her plan worked to send Dumuzi there. But because she is very upset at the end, it seems that she acted quickly and without thinking (like other times in her life). (However, she could be faking the mourning at the end, which would make her a much more calculated and manipulative person than I originally read her as.)
Good point about Inanna's essential capriciousness in some things (though not in others, for instance the me episode, which was entirely and devastatingly intentional)...
Delete1) I had not actually thought about her innocence in that way before but after hearing that i think about the series of events and how they all tend to work out in her favor and it makes me wonder if that is exactly the truth!
ReplyDeleteThat was certainly a productive seedpost, Lyz, and you did a good job of curating it. Lots of good commentary, too!
ReplyDelete