In the Inferno, Dante
distinguishes between the different people he encounters in Hell. He is extremely
scornful to some, but pities others. In the Wood of Suicides, Dante meets one
of the tree trunks, Pier de Vigne, who was “unjustly blamed” in his service to Emperor
Frederick II and committed suicide to avoid torture (Canto 13, line 69). (See
also the footnote, which reveals that Pier was famous for his mastery of Italian
poetry; was Dante biased because of this?). Similarly, Brunetto Latino is in circle
seven, where Dante finds him and is eager to spend time with him. Dante wants “with
all [his] soul” to have Brunetto walk with him for a bit (Canto 15, line 34). He
is not at all scornful to these men.
However, he reacts much differently
in other sections. Perhaps some of this is due to the fact that he is
progressing into “worse” layers of punishments, but this is not the only reason.
Speaking to Pope Nicholas III, who is in the Simoniac layer (for corrupting the
things of God), Dante declares, “stay as you are; this hole well fits you”
(Canto 19, line 91). In the same way, Dante yanks out the hair of Bocca delgi
Abbati, an unrepentant traitor in circle nine. Dante is adamant about some people
being awful, while others he feels compassion for.
Why does Dante (and Virgil) differentiate
between the people he meets? Could he have personal or political reasons? One
thing I noted was that Dante, as he distinguishes between those who should be
pitied and those who should be scorned, makes a judgement call about the
severity of their sins. He wishes some were not punished so severely, but he
adds to the punishment of others. Dante puts himself in a position to “judge
for [himself]” the sentences of the people he meets (Canto 33, line 21). Is Dante
acting as a judge when he pities some and not others? Or is he simply reacting –
as any human would – to what he sees?
Image: https://scholarsandrogues.com/2013/10/30/dantes-inferno-and-contrapasso/
Image: https://scholarsandrogues.com/2013/10/30/dantes-inferno-and-contrapasso/
This is a well-rounded discussion board, and you pose good questions here. I have actually thought about this, and I think that a lot of his thoughts (based off of his reactions from the people he meets in Hell) stem from his own personal beliefs and values. Like any human, there are things he does and things does not agree with; and he is not afraid to voice those opinions. I would not go so far as to say that this would be him acting as a judge, though, as they are already in Hell. Out of curiosity- how would you react if you were in Dante's shoes? Would you simply observe and keep your mouth shut about what you see, or would you be vocal about your beliefs and act accordingly?
ReplyDeleteGreat question! I don't know what I would do...I think it depends on if we think this is true or not. If the Hell that Dante describes is real, then whoever being shown it can't argue with who goes where (well, they could, but it wouldn't do anything). That's why Dante's reactions and judgements strike me so much. Aren't all the people in the circles of Hell to be pitied at the very least at some level?
DeleteHonestly, I think I would be scared to death and remain silent for that reason if not for any other.
There is definitely a good bit of bias in this work; Dante's personal background is quite visibly expressed in the various details of the text. I think Dante's exploration of the Wood of Suicides draws from his own identity in two ways: (1) as you said, he pities Pier de Vigne because he was a revered Italian poet, and Dante held such persons in high regard, and (2) Dante was a proponent of Renaissance Humanism. Renaissance-era Humanism advocated the study of classical Greek and Roman texts in order to construct a more worldly, human-centered concept of "destiny." Rather than being confined to a particular religious vision, Renaissance Humanists believed God gave humans the ability to design much of their own narrative. The focus on classical study is clear in the many allusions to Greek and Roman texts; furthermore, the way Dante almost acknowledges Greek and Roman gods as truthful reflects the more world-conscious outlook encouraged by humanists. Connecting this to the Wood of Suicides, it may act as an explanation for why Dante feels sympathy in such a setting, despite the fact that the Church would have viewed suicide as a grave, almost unspeakable, sin. Perhaps Dante saw suicide as a way for humans to draw upon that capacity for personal discretion supposedly bequeathed by God.
ReplyDeleteI think Dante was more harsh towards the corrupt popes because of his background as a religious reformer. Because Dante was so invested in this cause, those who went against it may have stirred bitterness within him; Dante seems to be a rather bitter and petty person, judging by the fact that he uses The Inferno as an outlet for his vendettas against political opponents. This then leads me to my idea for his abhorrence of traitors. His political enemies may have seemed as traitors to him, so that the act of betrayal became an entirely sensitive topic for him.
I don't know that Dante is acting as any human would. He seems more petty than the average person! I doubt that many people have, or have even thought of, spitefully crafted an entire elaborate work condemning someone for harming or offending them in some way. He's certainly making judgments about the severity of one sin in comparison to another, even though it may not be his place to do so. I don't think Dante has a spotless record, either.
That is a wonderful explanation of Dante's reaction to the man in the Wood of Suicides. I think you have found my underlying confusion about this piece. Dante, by making judgments about the people he meets in Hell, is acting in a very humanistic way, because he is his own authority of what is right and wrong. This surprises me because he is doing this in the context of Hell, and he has no control over what happens here. Well, actually he does. He inflicts more pain for some of the people he encounters! The fact that he can do this is interesting as well...he is affecting this place by his decisions. Is this related to Dante's ideas of humanism too?
DeleteGood point - Dante has his own record to consider. As he judges others, does he think about himself? Yes, he begins The Inferno in a humbled position, seeking to return from his wandering, but that doesn't make him so much better than all of the people he meets...
Great question. I think his personal biases definitely played into it. I interpret the Inferno as Dante's personal opinions demonstrated through the lens of Hell. So I think he may have been personally more sympathetic to those who committed suicide. Dante also said gay rights. I think he used the Inferno to express those ideas in the grander scheme of things.
ReplyDeleteYes, this would contribute to the idea that Dante's primary purpose was to meet a political agenda. I wonder what he actually believed about Hell...is this a metaphor or his own considerations? Or some of each?
DeleteWell, Dante certainly shows sympathy for Brunetto Latini, but more by overlooking his "sin" than sympathizing with it--much less advocating for "rights". Given the abhorrence with which the condition of homosexuality was regarded, Dante's ability to look past it to greet his friend is remarkable, though...
DeleteI also found it interesting that Dante preferred others to not have such harsh punishments but, to some of the sinners, he really did want them to suffer. To me, I think it's because of their situation or their political status that made Dante either feel pity or hatred to the sinners in Hell.
ReplyDeleteFor example, I think the reason why Dante pitied the Pier de Vigne from the Woods of Suicides because of personal reasons. Like Dante, Pier was an Italian poet. It could be possible that Pier was a White Guelph, the side that Dante favored over the Black Guelphs. So I would say that Dante was a little biased on that. Another possibility is that Dante saw Pier's death as unjustified because not only was Pier convicted of a crime he possibly didn't commit, he committed the sin of suicide, which is what brought him into Hell.
Yes, perhaps that was the reason for Dante's pity for Pier. The footnote only says that he was accused of treachery...like you say, could he have been falsely accused? If so, that would make the circumstances leading to his suicide very pitiable.
DeleteI believe Dante is reacting to the sins and punishments of these sins through his own feelings and opinions. You raise a lot of good questions, is he biased for some people, probably. Remember, this story was VERY political. He is going to side against the ones he knows he has a disliking for. Just as easy as he will side with the people he might want to persuade people to believe in. He might also be expressing pity for people that he might think deserve more than what they have. Because this was written all based on Dante's feelings, biased parts or changing opinions throughout should be expected.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that bias and changing opinions should be expected if he is writing with a political agenda. If his intentions are fully political, is there a specific reason he uses an elaborate and thoughtful depiction of his concept of Hell to accomplish this purpose? What are his other purposes in writing this work (outside of personal bitterness and politics)?
DeleteI lean toward thinking that in Dante's encounters with the various souls, he put together a mixed bag of personal views, the teachings of the time, and political motivations as well. All of these aspects together make the story the interesting piece that it is. It kind of seems to me like, although he has some resentment toward the church and the corruption that's taken place, he still views a lot of the teachings (particularly concerning hell) as fact, even if he doesn't personally find it fair. For example, putting the people who committed suicide in hell. He placed them there because presumably in his time the church taught that they would go to hell (this has changed, at least in Catholicism) but regardless, he expresses that he probably wouldn't personally have sent them there if it were up to him. This is part of the reason that I also would say that he is more so reacting rather than intentionally acting as judge to those that he meets.
ReplyDeleteThat's an interesting perspective. :) So, he put them in Hell, as he felt he must considering what he knew, but he reacts to this. I would argue that he is still being a kind of judge even by reacting, because he is judging for himself whether or not these things are right. Maybe this goes back to the idea of Dante combing humanism and religion...
DeleteQuite right, Raquel.
DeleteDante reacts in the manner he does to each soul, in my opinion, because of his political stance in the time being and also as a human reacting. Some of the people he meets and judges them as being poor, or deserving their sentence in hell, would be well known people, that could give him and upper edge in the political game. Along with him being human, in some instances he is compassionate and others he loses his temper. Humans are not perfect and we see that in Dante here. With being human comes being biased, this is when we see him favoring and feeling pity for several souls. Dante is a judge, just as we are in everyday life. We have to judge in order to survive.
ReplyDeleteThis makes a lot of sense! Yes, I totally agree that we all are judges and being biased comes with being human. We are judging Dante's book as we speak! :) Hell, however, is not a biased place, since it has clear-cut laws for whether or not someone goes. I think this is what makes Dante's biases seemingly misplaced?
DeleteIt is y belief that Dante pities some men because instead of living their whole lives in sin and shame, these men were relatively good, despite one point And it is due to this one point that Dante is seeing them in hell where, for the majority of their lives, they shouldn't belong. In accordance, for men who have continuously sinned Dante shows no sympathy, and adds to their pain.
ReplyDeleteGood distinction...the unceasingly rebellious and "continuous" sinners are mainly the ones Dante has an issue with. A good example of this is the unrepentant traitor in the ninth circle. It is shocking that he would still be rebellious once immersed in his eternal punishment...maybe this is a reason Dante gives him no sympathy.
DeleteI think that Dante is sympathetic to those he relates to. His fellow authors and peers in other aspects are like him, and he cannot believe that he himself belongs in Hell and therefore anyone like him must not deserve their punishments either. On top of this, most of the story is one long grudge list. He adds to the pain of people who have wronged him because it was clearly unjust to do so. Combining these two factors, Dante acts as judge, jury, and punisher based solely on himself: if the person is one of his or if they were an enemy.
ReplyDeleteThat was a great post, Alice, and you did a great job of curating it. I, too, find Dante's varying responses to the damned souls he encounters to be fascinating--by turns personal (grudges), professional (gotta love them bards!), literary (fascination with the mythologies of the past), and of course religious.
ReplyDelete