Reading the Book of Margery Kempe, I was really surprised! Surprised that they didn't just immediately throw her in the looney bin or kill her for being a witch. This might be because I am also taking the anthro class Witchcraft, Magic, and Religion and we just last week talked about all the minuscule things a person could do and would be labelled a witch. Not enough kids? Witch! Too many kids? Witch! Your neighbours can't seem to get pregnant? You're a witch! A woman couldn't even withhold sex from her husband without being considered a witch, as this was seen as gaining power over him. Margery Kempe not letting her husband bone for 8 weeks? Definitely a witch. Even if she was throwing herself around at the feet of the church and everything, that kind of behaviour was very unceremonial for church and very frowned upon, as was evident by the fact that people eventually stopped housing her on her pilgrimage.
So what do you think? Do you think Margery Kempe was really having these episodes and was a messenger of God so to speak, or do you think she a witch? Or do you think she was just going crazy from having fourteen freakin kids?
Again this is all very much mostly because I'm mentally stuck in my anthro class with how easily you can be called a witch and persecuted as such, but I will gladly list off the many many ways you could very easily be a witch if anyone so desires.
To me, I think she went down that spiral of madness after having her first child, which caused her postpartum depression. I know she had fourteen kids, but after giving birth to her first child, it really set her over the edge. If I could remember clearly However; I do like your accusations of how she could possibly be a witch. While I was reading this, I thought she was super crazy about religion and being madly in love with Christ, which I found super weird. If she was so devoted to Christ, why did she want to commit sin? When I think of witches, I think of people who are against the bible and follow pagan religions and the occult.
ReplyDeleteYour post is very original, I would never had connected Margery to a witch. I think that being pushed into the role of a mother and wife and just womanly role in general is what carried her into madness and depression. If someone would call her a witch, that probably would have upset her even more because women have unfortunately become typically accused of being witches. As for her role in being a messenger of God, I definitely think that would play a major role in someone accusing her in witchcraft. Think of all the negative feelings that religious people have about mediums or psychics.
ReplyDeleteThat sounds like a really interesting class to take! I definitely also tend to make connections between classes, and I would have probably wondered the same thing if I were in that one. Margery definitely really annoyed me as a person and it makes me wonder how much different or better she might have been if she had had access to the sorts of mental health treatment that exists today. She definitely goes crazy, and I feel bad for her husband. I found it really annoying of her in particular to be so desperate not to sin that she wouldn't even be with him, even THOUGH the fact that they were married made it totally not even a sin. I definitely would understand her not wanting to risk having anymore kids though. Fourteen is more than enough to drive anyone crazy. I wonder what her children thought of her as a mother.
ReplyDeleteHonestly I view it as . awoman gone mad through the labor of birth and the societal views that were forced on her at the time. Whereas she was not supposed to enjoy relations with their husbands, it is clear that at one point she did, and it is this i suspect to be her greatest sin. Driven mad by the guilt and the numerous children, along with the martial rape, she was driven to madness.
ReplyDeleteThe English, especially outside the false pieties of the aristocracy, were not so afraid of embracing carnal pleasures, nor was it in that time such a taboo topic (to wit, all of Chaucer)...
DeleteAccording to my research (a phrase which came out nerdier than intended), the European Witch Craze lasted from the 14th to 17th centuries. Because Margery Kempe lived from 1373-1438 in the UK, it's reasonable to question why she was not swept up in this madness. It is without a doubt taboo for the time that Kempe asked her husband to give up his "rights" to a sexual relationship with her. However, perhaps even more astounding is that he actually honored her request, with just the kind of sweet request that she have dinner with him now and then. This draws questions about her husband and how he fits into the gender expectations and attitudes of his time.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't say she was a messenger of God because the spiritual interactions seemed to be specific to her personally. A prevailing theory is that she suffered from postpartum depression and psychosis, but it's hard to make a complete analysis since she is no longer living, and the medical knowledge and resources during her lifetime were not adequate to pinpoint these conditions.
I'm not inclined to think that she was witch-like, or that people of this time thought so, but I'm really glad you brought this up. She was by no means acting like everyone else, and her at-times extreme behavior would definitely have startled people. She even says that "many men said she was a false hypocrite," thinking that her continuous weeping was fake, and that many of her former friends "forsook her [...] and would not know her" (1377). Even if Margery wasn't labeled a witch, she lost a number of relationships with the people around her. Not only did people from the church slander her, she had a strained relationship with her husband. Yes, this is her decision (and he is so kind as to not be terribly upset with her), but there is still a battle between Margery and her husband, which affects their relationship. She opposes him with feelings of sorrow, and throughout the piece she acknowledges his kindness and compassion toward her. In addition, as mentioned above, her many children were around to live through this as well. What did they think and do in response to their mother's behavior?
ReplyDeleteMargery's actions are heartfelt, and she desires a relationship with God that is complete, but there is a cost. It is odd to me how she alienates herself in many ways, but it is also interesting and moving how committed she is. She is willing to give up all of these relationships (or at least clearly not prioritize them over her relationship with her God) .
Like everyone else, I think that her circumstances drove her to the craziness that ensued. While people at the time might see her as insane, I wonder if she was never labelled as a witch because she did what she was "supposed to" for so long before being driven slightly mad. Because she spent so much time following the rules with and for her husband, she was never really a witch. Her neighbors and others may have thought that she was driven crazy or potentially possessed (I'm not sure when those accusations were popularly thrown around) because of the late bloom of her 'odd' actions.
ReplyDeleteWell, the only way to find out is to see if she weighs more than a duck...
ReplyDeleteIn all seriousness, I read it as a very visceral reaction to depression. She seems to hold a very, very deep self-hatred, possibly brought on by postpartum depression or something else, and was responding to it by throwing herself into this. (My name is Sprite Pepsi, and I'm abstinence until I DIE!). I think she was using her devotion to God as an outlet for self-destructive behavior to cope with whatever was going on with her. Tl;dr, I think what she needed was therapy and possibly a hug, not Sir Bedivere's largest scales.
I think you pose an interesting question, Aleks. Given the fact that this book originates in the 1500s, I think it would be fair to suggest that she was a "witch," but we all know that the witch scare of the 1600s was based mostly in fear and irrational thinking. That being said, maybe it would have been fair to suggest that she be institutionalized. I like the point about her throwing herself at the Church. I think this supports the argument that she should've been institutionalized because there could have been some sort of underlying illness that we are not aware of.
ReplyDeleteMargery was not a witch to my belief. These episodes were merely a midlife crisis, as it appeared to me. Although, for her time period, people could have considered her to be a witch. People could have just felt bad for her, as to why nobody had out right accused her of being one. Connecting the her to being a witch though, is a unique perspective I did not take into account. This would be a very reasonable assumption given the time this was wrote.
ReplyDeleteOh my goodness I love this post so much! Personally no I do not believe she is a witch, just because I do not believe in that sort of stuff. I think she has just gone mad, I mean could you imagine having 14 children. I would go mad too if I had 14 children.
ReplyDeleteAn excellent post, Aleks, and terrific discussion following, too. (I turned my comments into a blog post...)
ReplyDeleteIt's hard to tell whether these episodes were true or whether the pressure of being a woman in this time period caused her to crack. My opinion is the second option. It actually may be a combination of both, for many people hallucinate or believe that a higher power is reaching them when they are under so much stress (they strive and yearn for a divine intervention). It may also be that she was looking for an excuse to strive from the norm. But good post, I always enjoy your uncut blogs haha.
ReplyDeleteYou are very right to think that she would be thrown in some sort of looney bin because back in these times women weren't looked at the same way they are today. They would even think sometimes that when women start saying odd, radical things that they are witches, or supernatural so I think that that was a very interesting thought.
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