I find that The Divine Comedy is one the greatest pieces of literature ever written. The text is full of references and culture to extents that I have yet to encounter in any other literature. In this text alone, we see the collision of Greek, Roman, and Christian culture, and I believe that this is what makes the text so rich. In none of the texts we've read so far have we seen so many references in one text. The crossing of these cultures is interesting because it once again drudges up the question of how the hell these texts get crossed without modern communication! It's a question that bothers me even though I know that I'll probably never get a straight answer or any answer at all.Another thing about The Inferno that I find quite interesting is the idea that people born before Christ are stuck in Hell. Here's one question I pose: Is this fair? Should these people be given the chance to accept Christ in the after life? No matter what you think, the bottom line is that they don't have this opportunity -- or at least most of them don't. Along with this, it is worth discussing the fact that there are a few Biblical characters that ascend to Purgatory. In my opinion, this is fair because they did something significant to allow for the to get out of Hell and into Purgatory.
I leave you all with these questions to ponder:
- Why/How do you think these cultures got crossed in such a way?
- What is the importance of having Virgil guide Dante through Hell? Is it comparable to anything else you have read?
- Why has The Inferno, or even The Divine Comedy, stood the test of time?
The multitude of allusions to other works is truly impressive and shows the extent of Dante's classical knowledge. He is clearly both educated and invested in these works, as he constructs deep analyses of these characters along the lines of his religious doctrine in order to make judgments about their fate in the afterlife. Dante weaves classical characters intimately into his text, and there is the added benefit that, if readers are familiar with these characters, by understanding their backgrounds, they can better understand the nature of sin that places an individual within a particular level of Dante's concept of Hell.
ReplyDeleteI think the idea of people born before Christ being excluded from Heaven is a Dante-specific theology that doesn't quite align with Biblical teaching. The Bible teaches that entry into The Kingdom of God is earned by faith in Him and obedience to His will. The Bible also teaches that God is a trinity of The Father, The Son (Jesus), and The Holy Spirit, so even though Christ wasn't yet born upon Earth, He still existed and therefore could still be obeyed. Therefore, I'm not really sure where Dante gets this idea of being confined to Purgatory, but it would be interesting to try to figure that out. Doctrine and scripture at times deviate from each other, so he likely became caught in Catholic doctrine and thus ended up with this idea that is really hard for us to wrap our heads around. I mean how can Mother Mary not be led into Heaven??
As for your question series,
1. I think by mere travel these cultures became crossed. In earlier stages of society, before commodities like the Internet, travel was a huge point of cross-cultural contact, leading to the trading of not only products, but also languages, ideas, customs, etc. I think it must have been that these texts were carried with people in their travel and that that allowed them to be spread to new areas.
2. I think the importance of Virgil being Dante's guide is just in showing the level of respect that Dante had for him and his work. Dante places Virgil in a central, crucial role within the text and gives him an air of both wisdom and even influence; for example, Dante is greatly intimidated by Geryon in Cantos 17, yet Virgil has no fear and subdues him so he can assist them in the continuance of their journey. Virgil's role reminds me of Venus's help to Aeneas in The Aeneid. Venus comes from a supernatural place in order to help guide her son through a period of uncertainty and even danger, whenever he comes upon Dido's lands; in a similar way, Virgil acts as Dante's guide through a frightening journey that, at its end, is supposed to teach him about the gravity of his actions on Earth, so he may know how to acceptably navigate his life in the future. Venus and Virgil act as guides with special, supernatural knowledge that cannot be gotten from a mortal source but that will be helpful in the mortal world.
3. I think The Divine Comedy has persisted because religion is a particularly compelling topic. We have an innate fear of death, so with that we have a pressing desire to know what happens to us after we die. Therefore, religion is intriguing to us, even if we don't ultimately believe in it. The Inferno is probably especially infamous because it centers around a gruesome, extreme vision of Hell, and humans have a morbid curiosity.
Right about pretty much everything, Kate--although the purgatorial placement of pre-Christian souls WAS received Catholic doctrine (though not uncontroversial; some theologians wanted them all to fry) at the time. Sometimes called "the Limbo of the Patriarchs," righteous souls, upon death, waited there for the advent of Christ. When Christ died and descended to Hell (the Harrowing), he is supposed to have fast-tracked the most noble souls (Mary included) to Paradise...
Delete1. I think perhaps that since the Iliad and the Odyssey were passed down orally, it is possible that they would be more widely known based on that. Also, the Aeneid was such an important of Italian heritage at that time, it would be more expected for someone from that are to know about it, especially a learned man like Dante.
ReplyDelete2. One of the most important parts of the quintessential hero's journey is a guide: a figure to guide the hero through his quest and act as a mouthpiece of the author to teach the hero about what he or she is experiencing. Dante needs someone to show and explain the realms of Hell, Purgatory, and Heaven to him as he travels, to protect him and give context so Dante can interpret what he sees. Since Dante is the og Virgil fanboy, what better a person to show him around?
3. I believe the meshing of ancient secular literature and Christianity might be what makes the Inferno so popular. Even though they are journeying through the Christian Hell, they encounter many figures from ancient literature, blending the two canons in what is essentially a crossover fic.
1. Dante's influences were actually rather straight forward to me. I see the Divine Comedy as a love/hate letter to said influences and their origins make sense. Dante was a product of Roman and post Greek lore. On top of this, he lived in a time when Christianity had its strongest grip on the world. It isn't a stretch to say that the Greek and Roman classics formed an intellectual foundation for the culture and time in which he lived. This explains his obsession with Virgil; the father of Roman mythos. On top of this, Bards, as well as written accounts, passed down this information down, and was most likely preserved by the papacy.
ReplyDelete2. I think Dante chose Virgil as his guide simply because he loved his nation that much. It seems fitting that he would choose the father of Roman culture/mythos.
3. Personally, I think the answer is clear because of one simple fact. No one really cares about the other two portions of the Divine Comedy. People are inherently attracted to darkness and things that challenge comfort (just look at any HBO, AMC, or FX show that has come out). All of these shows focus on the darkness of human nature. Dante's Inferno acts as the darkest story ever written, in a sense. You can't really pick much darker of a topic than a journey through hell. For that reason, I feel people are attracted to it. Not only this, but humanity has a strong interest in the unknown. Considering Hell could very well be a real place we are all destined for, knowing about it makes sense.
You are certainly right about the eternal human can't-look-away fascination with horror (face it, the Inferno is probably the greatest horror story of all time). But back then, I suspect, the rest of the story--Purgatorio and Paradiso--was every bit as compelling: soothing, reassuring, hopeful after the terrific fright of the Inferno. Carrot AND stick...
DeleteI agree with you Nic, that this is one of the most complicated, twisted, interesting and incredible works I've ever read.
ReplyDeleteI found that those born BC are stuck. Just because Jesus Christ was not born, don't Christians believe that God created all, therefor he could still be worshiped? Just because they couldn't worship Jesus Christ does not mean they are not good and holy people.
1.) I think that the main reason why cultures get crossed (especially in literature) is because everyone has their own interpretations on what they are writing about. Not that there are any right or wrong answers, but everyone has an opinion. Some stuff they keep; some they get rid of.
ReplyDelete2.) I think it is important because it is clear that Virgil and his writings meant a lot to Dante; so why not pay homage to him through literature? He was inadvertently one of his guides in life, and now he is inadvertently one of his guides in death as well.
3.) I believe it has stood the test of time because religion has stood the test of time. We, as people, have always pondered what comes after death, and it is an issue that is still alive today. Also, we want to find out what others think of the afterlife, and will explore every option regardless of how old the source is.
I too love the limitless references and nods to be found throughout the Inferno. It's entertaining enough to us now that we understand them, but it also makes me imagine how much more entertaining it would be if a similar work was written today with modern references to people and things from this century. In fact, it would probably be really hilarious, which is why although I know this story is only technically called a comedy, the allusions along with the fact that Virgil of all people is Dante's guide makes it easy for me to consider it a comedy in any sense of the word. To me it plays out the way a crazy dream would.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it's fair that people born B.C. are barred from heaven. The whole time we've been reading this I've kept thinking about what a bummer that is each time it was brought up. I also don't think it's fair that one sin can cancel out all the good that people have done. In fact, that's what I ACTUALLY believe purgatory is for, is when your good outweighs your sin, but you still have some repenting to do.
I agree with all the other comments in regard to how all these different cultures were combined, the reasons for Virgil being the guide, (respect, dedication, etcetera) and even the last question about The Inferno standing the test of time. Because of this, I would say that the answers to these questions, though there is a lot of room for speculation, still have pretty universal answers about a great story. I hope I'm not the only one who actually IS interested in reading the Purgatorio and Paradiso someday!
You are quite right: that IS what Purgatory was for, Raquel...
DeleteSince Dante idolized Virgil, I feel like that means he read and was introduced to many different works of literature around the world. I don't know if that is a good assumption, but that is why I wasn't so shocked at his use of all kinds of different cultures, etc.
ReplyDeleteThis probably isn't the type of answer you are looking for in your second question, but as I'm reading this story, it kind of reminds me of getting a tour through a museum. Virgil is the guide and we are passing historic time periods, people, and mythical creatures we might have just read about in some old story. It is very entertaining. I also think the whole story reminds me of a recap of a show when you start a new season and they have to catch you up on everything that you have missed. This season it is Virgil updating you on what is going on down in hell.
I personally have never read anything yet that goes so in depth on hell and what is down there. Hell scares people, so we want to read any and every theory out there, so it stood the test of time.
1.) I think Dante made many references about Virgil because he was one of his favorite authors he looked up to, hence why Virgil is even a character in Inferno. As for the infinite amount of Christian references scattered around Inferno, I think, had to do with Dante's political past; him siding with the White Guelphs and his overall political stance as a religious reformer.
ReplyDelete2.) I believe that it was important for Virgil to be Dante's guide through hell since he was an inspiration to Dante as a writer. There are many references to Virgil and his works scattered around Inferno, basically in homage to Virgil, and to show how much of an impact he had on Dante.
3.) I have never ready anything so difficult and as complex as Dante's Inferno. I can see why The Divine Comedy is a classic because of its many references to Greek, Roman, and Christian influences and how they play in hell, purgatory, and paradise.
1) I think these cultures have crossed the way they have, just how knowledge has come together throughout history. Time goes on and the old culture gets left behind, but not forgotten. These cultures clash in my mind simply because of the timing. The era of the old is left behind while new religions and mindsets come into play. Dante clashing them all together though is a master piece.
ReplyDelete2) Having Virgil as his guide is Dante playing with who he would want guiding him through literal hell. Dante chooses to have his hero be the one. Who else would you want to lead you through hell?
3) The Divine Comedy, stands the test of time because it clashes many different cultures that hasn't been done before. Along with time, as of now, we don't know if it truly stood the test of time.
I believe that Dante used different cultures because of his knowledge from the other works he has been made aware of, just as anything they evolve with time and introduce new concepts but also often include information that is common in the past. I do find it odd that individuals born before Christ are stuck in hell and personally don't find this to be fair. They could have been the best most caring loyal person but just because of something that is out of their hands they are automatically sentenced to Purgatory.
ReplyDeleteCultures have no choice but to merge. Greece was morphed into Roman culture, which carried through to Christian culture. It has to start somewhere. Since Dante is essentially writing a fanfiction of Virgil's fanfiction, the premise of his story is firmly rooted in Greek influence. By nature, he would therefore have to explain where the pre-Christians were for good storytelling. I think the Inferno has lasted this long because humans are and have always been obsessed with what happens after we die. Since there is no way to even attempt to guess what happens, we turn to religion, literature, and religious literature. The Inferno is an incredibly descriptive source for the underworld, making people cling to it for a shred of an idea of what comes after we flatline.
ReplyDeleteFirst, one thing I noted was that The Inferno is very hierarchical. People reach "levels" of the different afterlives, and they can move up and down them like a social hierarchy. Similarly, sins are organized in a hierarchy, with some being worse than others. Even the way Virgil and Dante react to the people they pass, either with scorn or pity, reflects a kind of organization.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, all that to say, it does surprise me that pre-Christ people are not allowed the same opportunity to go to heaven. If Dante believes in Jesus, who fulfilled the Old Testament law, then how can he say that the gospel doesn't apply to everyone. Abraham, who lived before Christ, was saved through faith just like Paul, living after Christ was saved through faith. So, if the saving part isn't about what he did in life, why is it categorized according to which sin is worse? It seems that the hierarchy of sins makes the faith part unimportant. The point of being saved is because everyone needs Jesus...not some more than others. Maybe The Inferno creates a kind of hierarchy that stretches into heaven/hell. Dante seems to be putting people in categories, making some look better or worse than others, but I don't think that's it.
Interesting comment on the hierarchicality of Hell, Alice. It most definitely IS layered that way, and the layering continues through the Purgatorio and all the way through the Paradiso to the very top, where sits God. Our human social constructs being so relentlessly hierarchical (and the Church profoundly so), it is no wonder that that's how the realms of Death are structured as well...
DeleteVery thoughtful post, Nic--and well thought-out questions to seed the discussion!
ReplyDelete1: I don't really have any idea in my mind at least in how the paths got crossed. Maybe it just happened to be a coincidence. 2: I feel its a big respect thing with Virgil leading Dante through hell, and that's why Virgil did it, because of respect. 3: I feel the divine comedy is still around is because religion is something that has been around forever, and will most likely never go away. There will always be a God, or Gods that are worshiped.
ReplyDelete