Through my journey into reading The Tain, I found multiple situations in the story that were so similar to the previous stories read in this class that I couldn't help but to bring them all to your attention. It is always a fun little joy of mine to find things while reading that relate to another piece of literature or related to something in real life. Especially when they are such different pieces of work, like these.
To begin, the scene in which Ailill sends a "fool" to trick the opposing warriors into thinking it was him was unbelievably similar to Achilles's story with the death of Patroclus. I found myself with my mouth wide open at how funny it was to see the parallel to the stories. Of course these two scenes did have important differences though. For example, Patroclus stole Achilles's armor without him knowing and the fool was forced to dress up in the disguise by Ailill. Along with that, although they both died in the end, Patroclus successfully passed as Achilles and was killed because he was thought to be Achilles. The fool was killed because the plan failed and they knew that Ailill was trying to pull a fast one on them. Better luck next time Ailill.
Another parallel that I found from The Tain was with Inanna's Decent to the Underworld. In Inanna's story, we go through a long description of the stages Inanna took in order to enter the underworld. We followed her through every gate and watched her take off another piece of clothing or accessory. I see two scenes in The Tain that reminded me of that through description of Inanna's undressing. For example, we read a long and thorough section just devoted to Cuchulainn getting dressed for his battle. We know that Inanna's undressing was symbolic and important, that makes me wonder how important this preparation for battle was? The other scene that reminded me of Inanna was the death of Etarcomol. The author found it important to point out every little part of his death. First he cut off his clothes, then hair, then right in half. I think what makes me want to relate both these scenes back to Inanna is the attention to the small details. It makes me, and probably some of you, feel the need to pay attention because it seems so important.
My question for all of you would be, have you found anything in the story that can be related to another piece of writing you have ever read? Can you agree with my ideas or disagree?
Very interesting connections! I never would have thought of Patroklos stealing Achilles' armor and Ailill dressing up the fool as himself to be connected. It makes sense since both Patroklos and the fool were killed while still in disguise but for difference circumstances. When reading The Tain, I already thought it was very similar to Homer's The Iliad since both take place during a battle. The Iliad dealt with the Trojan War while The Tain was a battle for the bull, Donn Cuailnge of Ulster. Based on your connection to The Iliad, I found another one. Both of the wars started with someone stealing/attempted to steal something from an opposing land. For example, the Trojan War started when the Trojan man, Paris, kidnapped Helen of Sparta. In the Tain, Ailill and Medb tried to take Donn Cuailnge from Ulster except they failed at their attempt.
ReplyDeleteI think it is such an awesome thing to find connections between stories. I didn't even think of the kidnapping idea. Both are silly things to start a war over.
DeleteI agree with this post, and I feel that I have found some parallels between the stories. The first comes from The Tain and The Odyssey. The scene I speak of occurs during the fight with the suitors/when Mev attempts to ambush Culcullin. In both instances, the "bad guys" simultaneously throw their spears and completely miss their target. Another instance comes from Ferguson's respect for his opponents. In the Tain, it says that Ferguson took a longer route in order to give his opponent time to form an army. We see this kind of chivalry between Hector and Diomedes when they meet on the field of battle. Both cases show a familial connection, and (in both cases) the warriors respect that connection.
ReplyDeleteGreat idea Pierre, I would have never thought of that.
ReplyDeleteGreat ideas! I never really made these connections when I was reading The Tain, but I definitely see them now. I personally really love the connection you made between The Tain/Inanna. When I dug a little deeper into the symbolism behind undressing, Google suggested that it could resemble removing mental blocks from your head? It could possibly have something to do with that, though I am not sure. What do you think?
ReplyDeleteWhen I read Inanna, I thought it just represented the complete vulnerability of not knowing what she was walking into as she entered the gates of the underworld.
DeleteI think the connections you made are super cool. While reading I did not think that much into them, so I am really glad that you made this post. Now when I was re reading our readings I do see some of the difference but some of them I am still confused on and would love to talk about them more with you.
ReplyDeleteMedb and Ailill, with their little competition in the beginning to see who is better and has more stuff, remind me of Inanna and Dumuzi when they are quarreling. Inanna is convinced that Dumuzi's family cannot compare with her own (which is one of the reasons she doesn't want to marry him at first). Dumuzi insists that she is being unreasonable, that his family is just as good as hers. In the same way, in the Tain Medb and Ailill banter back and forth. Aillil kind of instigates her, saying how lucky she is to go from nothing to everything by becoming his wife. She is not about to be slighted, so she thoroughly explains her family's status and riches. The two go back and forth to prove who is better. This scene reminded me of Inanna and Dumuzi, who also need to see who is "better" in their relationship.
ReplyDeleteSimilarly, as I continued reading, Medb seemed to act more and more like Inanna, both being confident, strong-willed, and pretty self-centered.
Loved that idea, Alice. I would have never thought of that!
DeleteInteresting how seemingly trivial lovers' tiffs can trigger such momentous works of art...
DeleteThis may be an odd connection to make and probably not what you were looking for, but whenever I read a heroic dressing room montage like from the Iliad or the Tain, I can't help but picture the one from Mulan, where Mulan dons her father's armor and cuts her hair, symbolically taking the place of the dragon as the guardian of her family. I think scenes like those are representative of the hero's transformation, putting on the tools they need to fully become who they need to be in that moment.
ReplyDeleteSince I am an obsessed Disney fan, I totally appreciate that connection. It is really fun to make these connections. Thank you for sharing your idea!
DeleteI found the Tain to be similar to a lot of stories featuring Guinevere, Arthur's queen. Medb is greedy and demanding, while Aillil supports her in all things. The armor scene is also carried through from ancient tradition - great detail goes into the donning of armor in "The Iliad" - up through and beyond medieval tradition - with the importance of the knights' armor, such as Sir Gawain's in "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight." The Tain seems to be a middle stop along this path, describing Cuchulain's armor in great detail.
ReplyDeleteI would have never thought of the connection with Guinevere and Arthur. I think that a big thing in those stories is the neediness and controlling tendencies of Guinevere and despite everything she puts Arthur through (her sleeping around with everyone), he sticks with her. I like the relationship connection between those two couples, great!
DeleteThe Tain, in principle, is unlike anything we have read before; however, it really isn't all that different. Like you said, there are several comparisons that can be drawn between The Tain and Inanna are striking. These similarities is something that I have talked about before both on the blog as well as discussion papers. It baffles me to great extents how we can have these pieces of literature from totally different parts of world, yet still have these commonalities.
ReplyDeleteIt is definitely important to acknowledge the lack of originality in all stories. Every story has its own twist, but for the most part, they all follow similar plots.
DeleteYou have a good eye for parallels, Abigail! I didn't notice the connection between Ailill's fool and Patroclus. True, it was not the Fool's idea to impersonate Ailill, whereas it WAS Patroclus's idea to impersonate Achilles (to whom Achilles willingly loaned his armor, btw). Still, the parallel is there.
ReplyDeleteIf we hadn't skipped Book 18 of the Iliad, where Achilles receives his armor from Haphaistos and dons it, you would have made the connection to Achilles instead of Inanna, because the Cu Chulainn/Achilles parallel is almost exact. Still, I like the parallel you draw with Inanna's dressing for the Underworld and Cu Chulainn's dressing for battle. In a metaphoric sense, the symbolic items of Inanna's dress were very much the armor she dons for her "battle" with Ereshkigal...
Good thread, guys!
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