Whenever you read and/or analyze The Iliad, one of the biggest and most prevalent points to talk about is the relationship formed between Achilles and Hector. Though most would argue that Achilles is our hero and protagonist, I am here to ask the question: is he really?
When you look at these two characters, you will find that they have a lot more in common that what one would initially think. They are both leaders, strong willed, and want to lead their armies to success. Though their differences are far more evident, they ultimately want the same things. So what makes one a hero over the other?
Hector is far more mature than Achilles, and leads his men with a sharp mind. He is courageous and has a lot at stake. He is not only fighting for his kingdom, but for his family and companions as well. He seems to keep everyone in mind, and is far from egotistical.
Achilles, on the other hand, is a true man of war. He has a lot of skills and really takes pleasure in watching his enemies suffer/die. In addition to this, he gets away with a lot more with the gods. While the gods help out on both sides, it is obvious which “person” they favor. Achilles only seems to car about himself, and his power truly does go to his head.
Ultimately, I find these characters to be fascinating, and I do think that Hector is more of a hero than Achilles. These are just my surface-level thoughts regarding this issue, but I want to know what you guys think of this.
Here are my questions:
1.) Do you agree or disagree with my opinion? Who would you deem as being the “hero” of the story?
2.) Is being a hero more based on strength and courage or wit and intellect?
3.) How do you think the gods influenced the path the story took? Would there have been a different outcome if they had not been directly involved?
Grammar mistake: In paragraph four, "car" should be care.
ReplyDeleteIt's OK to edit your post, Nate. Just click the Pencil icon at the end of the post...
DeleteHector is definitely more of a hero then Achilles and is so much more mature which backs it up!
ReplyDeleteThanks for agreeing!
DeleteI agree with you that Hektor is more of a hero than Achilles. I feel this way because his motives behind his fighting are more honorable- we get to see a more personal side of him involving his family and home life. Whereas the side we see of Achilles is more cruel and impersonal. Sure, he does have personal motives such as avenging his friend, however since we’ve seen the type of person Hektor really is, we’re inclined as readers to side with him and feel sad for his family when they lose him. In this way perhaps Homer did have a bias when ‘writing’ it from those different perspectives.
ReplyDeleteNext, I think being a hero comes down to the person who has the right balance of each of those qualities you mentioned. Too much of any of them will get you killed in the end. With only strength and courage, you will take too many risks, and with only intellect and wit, you will not necessarily be brave enough to fight and win.
Last, I do think we would have seen very different outcomes had the gods never intervened. Hektor may have survived, mainly. Apollo wouldn’t have sent his plague and convinced the Greeks to give back the priests daughter, for another thing. Also Agamemnon would’ve been killed right away in the beginning. Basically there are limitless things that would’ve changed if events could have unfolded naturally. Although, in some other cases, destiny is destiny regardless.
1.) Totally, he is more personable!
Delete2.) I agree. Why should it be one or the other?
3.) I love that answer. You're right. But here's another question to boggle minds... doesn't destiny come from the gods? If they weren't involved at all, would there be a destiny?
Personally, I agree with you. I view Hector as the real hero of this story simply because of his maturity and self-control. I find it funny how Homer structured the story to reflect this. While Hector makes his final remarks to his wife and children, Achilles is crying like a child because Agamemnon took his "prize". I can't help but feel slightly disgusted with Achilles, and I feel that some (if not all) the gods feel that way as well. Why else would they preserve Hectors body as Achilles disgraced it? While you could argue that Achilles was justified in his response to the death of his friend, we must not loose sight of the fact that it was because of Achilles that his friend died. If he hadn't been in his tent crying, he would have been out on the battlefield taking names. It is this plot point that reinforces the stark contrast between the two, and I feel this was the point. That being said, I do believe the outcome would have been different if the gods had not intervened. Had the gods stayed their hands, we wouldn't have had this story in the first place; seeing as the whole premise of the story comes from Apollos righteous anger towards Agamemnon.
ReplyDeleteI agree about Patroklos' death being Achilles' fault. While reading, I was frustrated with Achilles for being a jerk and not supporting his men. The reason Patroklos goes to battle is because he is so upset that everyone is dying and Achilles isn't doing anything! This seems to be the section of the story where I lost a lot of respect for Achilles as a character.
DeleteThanks, I think the outcome would have been different as well. The gods really messed with fate here.
DeleteIn my opinion, I view Hector as more of a hero. He has the mature, honorable, and respected characteristics that a hero would have. Achilles could be viewed as a legend or just an intensely good warrior. He was participating in the war not to prove anything or to bring honor to anyone, he is just a trained warrior. If I think of Achilles, hero does not come to mind. Hector faced against Achilles with the knowledge that he was going to probably die. He sacrificed himself for the greater good of the entire city of Troy. That is more impressive than anything Achilles had done. I do want to point out though, I still think Achilles is unbelievably impressive, just not heroic.
ReplyDeleteExactly, I'm glad you agree. Everything he did was because of the greater good.
DeleteI agree with you whole heartedly that Hector is our hero in this story. I feel as though because he is painted, and was, more of a "family man" if you will and had more motivations than just the spoils of victory, he is the hero here. I understand that Achilles is a man of war and that seems to be his sole purpose in life but, because of that I just have no sympathy for him. Excuse my french but, Achilles is a complete ass due to the simple fact that a bruised male ego is what lead to this war, OVER LOSING A WOMAN! I also understand that she was his first love, I think that we all remember our first love (or will remember if we haven't yet had that experience) however, going to war over a bruise ego is the epitome of immature and childish in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteI believe that being a hero is so much more than brute force and pure physical strength. Being a hero involves understanding the consequences of your actions before you execute them. Understanding that everything you do and say as a leader, some time down the line, will have an effect on not only you but also the people you are leading. Deciphering between a good decision and a bad one takes so much more than just wondering if it is going to make you look good, you have to consider if it will DO good for you and your people.
I honestly haven't thought about how this story would have ended if the god's were not involved. I do think that it would have ended differently but, how it would have ended? I'll have to get back to you on that one!
Great post Nate! I really enjoyed it and it got me thinking (which can either be very bad or very good....sometimes we just never know which).
Thank you, and you're right. Being a hero should not only be based on strength. Why, though, is it sometimes viewed that way?
DeleteIt appears that a huge factor in being a "hero" in a story is to have the support of the people and the audience. In many ways, Achilles and Hektor are both very strong and intellectual. They are also both very stubborn (and committed?), willing to do whatever it takes to fight for revenge or glory. But as a hero, you also have to be loved and respected by the people. Achilles has a few supporters, especially Athena, but there aren't enough of them present and active in the story. In contrast, Hektor has his father, mother, wife, son, and the city supporting him. We get to personally meet these characters in detail, and then we see their reactions one-by-one when Hektor dies. With so much attention given to Hektor, of course we feel badly for him!
ReplyDeleteThis reminds me of stories that turn normally disliked characters into protagonists. If we can get into the mind of a character, it is more likely that we will feel badly for him and maybe even see him as a hero (if we can see ourselves through the character). I think this happens through Hektor, making him into a kind of hero.
Love this answer! Are you implying that there is no clear hero and that they should be seen as equals?
DeleteI believe in present day thinking, where we seem to think more about family, honesty, etc rather than sheer skills in war, Hektor has become the hero of the story... well the fallen hero. Going off of another comment, much of the deeming of being a "hero" is from the reaction of the audience. As time goes on and this story stays the same, it would make sense that Achilles becomes more barbaric.
ReplyDeleteThat's a good point, Cameron...
DeleteTotally agree. Maybe this was the ideal hero in Homer's mind. It would be interesting to see 500 years from now who the "hero" would be in people's minds who were analyzing the story.
DeleteYour post elicited some great conversation, Nate. Your singling out "maturity" as the core factor dividing these two heroes made for a good starting point.
ReplyDelete1: I do believe Hector is more of a hero. 2: I believe that all 4 aspects of being a hero are equally important because I feel if you don't have one of the traits that it will make you a far lesser hero. 3: Its hard to say if the gods had an impact because they are gods so they are very powerful. My personal opinion I would say they did have an impact because of how powerful they are
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