- Should we see more of Athena?
- Should Athena be discussed more because of the power she has on the Odyssey?
- Should there be more discussion on how Athena and Odysseus work together and create the plot of the odyssey?
Monday, September 23, 2019
The Strength of Athena
In the Odyssey, we see a lot of Athena. Athena is as we know the goddess of wisdom, purposeful battle, and the womanly arts. She is also the daughter of Zeus and intertwined with Odysseus. When Odysseus is trapped, Athena is the one whom is most upset. She is a strong and powerful goddess and tries to help. She takes special interest in helping Odysseus when he is trapped by Poseidon's Cyclops. Also, she puts herself on the line for Telemachus. She does not take the lead in fighting but she fights alongside both Odysseus and Telemachus. She teaches Odysseus the meaning of being a hero. Athena is responsible for teachings of lessons needed to create the Odyssey’s plot. With taking Athena’s strength into account, here are a few questions:
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I think we see enough of Athena. The only reason I am saying this is because I'm kind of jealous that Odysseus has this back up all the time. I wish I had a God or Goddess having my back every time I get in a sticky situation. As for the discussing Athena, I think Athena is very important. I would describe her as the setter on a volleyball team, she is just setting Odysseus up so he can spike everything down and accomplish his mission. She helps drive the plot forward.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I feel that if we saw more of Athena (or any other god for that matter) the tale would cease to be about humans and become a tail about the gods. A previous post compared the trials Odysseus encounters to a play for the gods, and I completely agree. The story must continue and the gods must be entertained. So, when I see Athena step in to aid Odysseus, I don't believe she does it because she truly cares for him. I feel she does it to trigger the next plot point.
ReplyDeleteAs much as I love Athena and many other Greek Gods/Goddesses, I think it would be important to discuss more of Athena since she really "comes and goes" over and over in the plot. Odysseus is a favorite to Athena, so it would be interesting as to why Athena helps Odysseus out a lot. Does she admire him? Does she have an attraction to him? Does she just like helping him, in particular? Who knows.
ReplyDeleteIt also would have been nice if Odysseus was less dependent on Gods/Goddesses helping him win his battles. I can kinda see why Athena helps him the most, is because he's the protagonist and he's gotta stay alive to face the conflict at his home.
Another interesting thought I have was: I wish Homer could have made 25th book in The Odyssey all just dedicated to Athena and Odysseus' bond or the backstory as to why Athena favors Odysseus so much.
I think that Athena should be discussed more. I feel differently however, I think that she interferes a lot and I still cannot get a read on her. I don't know that I agree with her actions however, I do really appreciate the fact that she helps Telemachus to mature and find himself. Without having a father in the picture to learn from and model himself after, she takes the reigns and facilitates him learning about the world. I still am on the fence but think that she definitely did the right thing teaching Telemachus about the world and stepping in to help him find his voice.
ReplyDeleteI think if we saw more of Athena, it would discredit the idea of the Greek gods and goddesses being held at a plane above that of humanity. Granted, these gods have incredible control over earthly happenings, a fact demonstrated in each of the Greek texts we have dissected so far, though particularly in The Iliad and The Odyssey. For example, in The Odyssey, we see Athena make her mark by blocking the suitors' weapons from hurting Odysseus and his men (308). She intervenes to ensure the safety of Odysseus and his loyal companions. On an even grander scale, Athena holds off the dawn, prolonging night just so Odysseus and Penelope can catch up with each other concerning the past two decades (323). Hence, Athena as it is has a significant level of interaction with the narration, and I think adding any more than there currently is would take away from the special essence of the gods. They have a sovereignty that removes them (at least somewhat) from the mortal world; saturating the text with divine intervention would pull the gods from their unique place in Heaven. I'm not entirely sure what your second question is asking :( Do you mean should Athena be discussed more in the text or in class? If in the text, I would refer back to my previous point that any further incorporation of the gods would refute their nature. A certain level of mystery and evasiveness should be maintained with the gods since they are so far above the human world. Also, their power is more compelling when it is not fully understood. We are exceedingly curious beings, such that that which eludes us draws us in more strongly and/or evokes great fear in us. I think that in building a piece of literature it is crucial to build upon such strong, innate emotions. If in class, I think we've touched upon her an adequate amount. In class, I'd like to talk more about stylistic techniques, like when we went over rhythmic patterns in I think The Iliad. I think those kinds of elements are really interesting because they help us to appreciate the prowess and sophistication writing possessed even as it was still budding. For your last prompt, I honestly think the interplay between Odysseus and Athena is constructed as much as it needs to be. We get to see the remarkable strength and control that Athena, along with the other gods and goddesses, are able to wield, yet we also get to see much of Odysseus's characteristics. Going back to what Pierre said, this is a succinctly human tale that explores much of our deepest inclinations and emotions (pride, fear, greed, jealousy, passion, etc.). I think this is what has allowed it to propagate for as many centuries as it has. The beautiful aspect of literature is the way it preserves and analyzes the human experience, in a much more fluid, active, stylized version than a strictly historical or medical account can. I think shifting from a human focus would take away some of this rarity.
ReplyDeleteWhat a thoughtful discourse, Kate. I especially liked your observation that "power is more compelling when it is not fully understood"...
DeleteI think Athena does plenty already. As goddess of craft and cleverness, she encourages independence and self sufficiency. While her favored hero needs some nudging, Odysseus makes it through largely on his own merit. Telemachus has to learn this trait from Athena - she accompanies him as he develops self confidence in his own ability. Once he has that, he is able to help his father slaughter the suitors on his own. Athena does her part by leading her horses to water. Unlike the Iliad, though, divine intervention is incredibly limited. Zeus has washed his hands of the matter, leaving the mortals to their own devices.
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ReplyDeleteTo answer your questions:
1.) Yes, I absolutely think we should see more of Athena. I think that her character is completely fascinating, and I would read a whole origin story based on her adventures. Though she plays a very important role throughout the story already, I’d still love to see more of her.
2.) I think that finding out why she wants to help Odysseus so much would be an interesting thing to expand upon; along with exploring more of her mental state and where she is coming from. As much as I love her character, I think that her physical presence does not really need more detail.
3.) I personally think that it is clear how they work together, so I don’t think that should particularly be discussed too much further. As I said before, what I would like to see explored more is Athena’s mental mindset. It would be fascinating to dive deep into her psyche.
I totally agree that we should talk about Athena more. I don't think so many people realize how big of a role she plays in the Odyssey. I would love to discuss more her power in the Odyssey.
ReplyDeleteAthena, I think, shows up just enough. She's there when Odysseus is in a pinch and needs a little extra help. I don't think she needs discussed more because while she does play a powerful role here, she isn't the one actually in danger of losing everything. In my opinion, Athena doesn't make the plot with Odysseus, she more of nudges it along, whereas Odysseus the actual man thriving through all of the tests he has been through makes the odyssey.
ReplyDeleteI think your take on this is pretty sound, James...
DeleteYou kicked of a good discussion, Hanna.
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